 A Conversation with
Author
Erick S. Gray
Part. II of II
Interview by Joey Pinkney
July 2008
You've seen both side of the publishing game from smaller houses and larger houses. What are the pros and cons to you?
Erick S. Gray: The thing about the majors is that they have a lot of clout in the industry, and you don't have any control over your books. When I was with a major, I couldn't push my book the way I wanted to push my book. I had to order my books and have them send it to me FedEx. With the smaller presses, I could go and get four or five boxes and go hit the streets and get the streets talking. The larger houses are straight corporate and not really street oriented. In this game, an author has to be corporate and street-oriented to be successful.
The majors, they really focus on the book store chains like Borders and Barnes and Nobles. That's cool, but you got to deal with the mom and pop stores, too. So when I was stuck with a major, I felt trapped. I couldn't push my book the way I wanted to push it. People were like, "Yo, E. How can I get Nasty Girls?" I was like, "I don't know. You gotta go call St. Martin's"
So you were disconnected from you readers?
Erick S. Gray: Yeah, I couldn't get you that book. When it came to Booty Call and books like that, I could get you those all day everyday. How many cases you want? You want a case? Here. You want three cases? Here. Right now I got four cases in the trunk of my car.
For real?
Erick S. Gray: I've learned that you always keep a case of books in your car. You never know who you might run into. I couldn't go that with Nasty Girls. With Nasty Girls, I couldn't charge what I wanted to charge. They charged me six dollars a book, so I had to charge ten dollars a book just to break even.
With Crave All Lose All, I can charge four or five dollars a book because it's not coming out of my pocket. I can charge what I want to charge.
So you're more at home with a smaller press like Augustus Publishing?
Erick S. Gray: You learn more when you're with a small company. You interact with the business more. You're more focused. You see how things work. If you want to just write and make a little money and that's it, get with a major. If you want to make a name for yourself and go out there and learn the business, I always tell people to get with a smaller house.
A lot of people tell me, "Yo, E, I want to get with a major publisher." When you're with a major, you're on a time schedule. You're paying for your own book out of your pocket. You can't just walk up to them and get four or five cases.
You end up being a customer of your own books at that point.
Erick S. Gray: Yeah, that's what it is. When I was with St. Martin's Press, I ended up setting up my own tours. Everything I did was coming out of my pockets. DC, ATL, Baltimore, Chicago...that was on me. They didn't send me any money for hotel, food, and traveling. That was out of my pocket.
Then with the majors, they would send me to a signing in New York. I can set up my own signings in New York, Brooklyn, Harlem. I'm the king of New York.
I used them like they used me. What I mean by that is that I used them for leverage, to get more clout in the business. A lot of people didn't know my name until Nasty Girls and It's Like Candy came out. It helped me with exposure.
So you worked with St. Martin's Press to get a national platform for yourself?
Erick S. Gray: That's how you got to think. Plus, I signed a two book deal for thirty thousand on my own without an agent. That's pretty good. I negotiated the deal back and forth. I've never had an agent.
Since you've been writing and promoting your books, what do you see as the keys to holding an effective and successful book tour?
Erick S. Gray: The key is keeping your name out there. You got to keep hustling. The same ones that put you up will bring you down. Another thing is this: A lot of people say there's no money in anthologies. I've learned in this business that it's not always about the money. It's all about you name. If you do a bomb story in an anthology, people will notice you. Readers will seek you out.
I participated in a provocative anthology called Sexin and Flexin. My story is entitled Hit Em Up. People read this story to this day and look for me. I had one girl tell me that she read my story in that book and went back to the bookstore and bought all of my books.
You have to stay active to stay successful in this business. You have to able to learn from editors from other writers and from publishers. To be successful in this genre, you have to be able to network. You got to open your mouth and be assertive.
It's all about building a body of work.
Erick S. Gray: When you come in this game and you drop one hot book, that's good. Do it again. And do it again. And do it again. And do it again to the point where you become an icon. When you look at Donald Goines or Chester Himes or Langston Hughes who have made a name for themselves in this world, they were not one-hit-wonders.
Then you got writers out there that do same plot different characters. When you read my books, each one is different from the other ones. For instance, Booty Call and Nasty Girls are two different books. I have a very vivid imagination.
I respect dudes like K'wan, Al Saadiq, Mark Anthony. Every year, they keep coming with something new. In this genre, you have to be consistent. Every story has to be better than the last. When that first book sells six thousand copies, it's a smash hit. You got to come better than that now. You got to come stronger.
That can be a lot of pressure.
Erick S. Gray: Some people can't handle that. The first book drops and the next don't come until two or three years later because they crumble under the pressure. You got to come with the second one. The third one. That shows that you're built for this. It shows that this is your talent.
A lot of people drop one hot book and think that they are the sh*t. I'm like, "Come one, man. There more to this than just dropping one book, man." I got no respect for a dude that drops one book one year and you don't hear from him in a while.
Urban lit is a hungry genre right now. Everybody says it's saturated. Really, you got competition. You got writers that's hungry right now. It used to be in the hood you either became a rapper or an athlete. Now it's rapper, athlete or writer.
There's definitely a lot more money to be made in the genre right now.
Erick S. Gray: Urban lit is a million dollar genre, so now you got writers that didn't write street before that want to write street now. If you're not from where I'm from, if you're from West Bubblef*ck in Long Island somewhere and never been in the hood, you can't really write what the hood sh*t is about. You're a bubblegum writer.
It's kind of like Hip Hop and studio gangsters.
Erick S. Gray: Sometimes I'll read a book and noticed that things aren't right. I don't talk like that. That sh*t don't happen in the hood. I've been doing this since over ten years ago. I love movies. I love to read books. I love to read anything romance, comedy, drama, whatever... I've always been drawn to a good story. You ever seen a movie so good you had to see it again?
Yeah, that movie for me was Shottas. I watched Shottas for like a week straight.
Erick S. Gray: I try to write books like that. It's all about the story. You don't know how many books I've read that don't have any structure. It's like the author thought he was going to just put some murder, some drugs and some jewelry in it. No! I want a book that's so good that you really love a character or really hate a character. I want the character to be so powerful that you either want to see the character do good or get shot up.
What's the last book you read from front to back that made you feel like a reader who writes instead of a writer who reads?
Erick S. Gray: Paper Chasers touched me like that. Kwan's book Hood Rat. The Coldest Winter Ever. Another great book that hit me like that was Chaos in Chocolate City. Dude got good penmanship and his story was pretty deep about a race riot between Backs and Hispanics. It really made me feel like a reader.
What's next for Eric Gray readers?
Erick S. Gray: Right now I'm working on my first film. As far as books, to tell you the truth, I'm trying to pull back on urban fiction. I've been doing it for so many years. I'm trying to get into contemporary stuff like drama and erotica.
I'm working on a book now call Confessions of a Thug Gigolo. It's still has the urban backdrop, but it's not about murders and drugs and prostitution. It's more about relationships and drama. I also do a lot of ghostwriting for a lot of people. I'm not going to name any names.
Click for part I of interview
Related features/articles:
Erick Gray 2006 Interview
Crave All Lose All Book Review
Joey Pinkney is a freelance writer and book reviewer. He spends most of his time with his family and friends. At night he burns the midnight oil putting together articles for your reading pleasure. For more information visit: www.joeypinkney.com
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Thanks ;-). Henrik.
I liked the interview. But one thing stuck with me. As a Long Islander what makes you think where you come from is hood and Long Island is some paradise? Queens is not all hood. There are some very nice hoods in Queens with crazy big houses. Are you aware Long Island has some of the most affluent neighborhoods in the country, but also some of the most impoverished areas on the east coast? As far as blacks are concerned in the drug trade there is no area within the 5 boroughs which has seen more money in reference to coke/crack b/c the customer base has always been mainly white and they have the paper to spend. Long Island is bigger than every borough except Brooklyn. As far as your writing the best with it and keep it going.
I am glad I made my statement because yours was very clear and so true. Best of luck to the authors who truly want to bring out the literature in Street Lit.
@Artist1: I understand what you are saying about true art. I don't think that in order to do art you have to be doing something you don't know about. That's called experimenting or exploring, not necessarily art.
Let me break down what me and Erick were referencing when we were talking about some writers being like "studio gangsters". Some writers see urban fiction as an opportunity to make money, nothing more or less. That's whack.
Instead of likening it to an actor stretching his skills to further is experience in an art form and make it better, a lot of writers are putting sex, guns, murders, drugs, drug dealing, designer fashion, luxury cars, profanity, etc. just to try to make a sell.
The writers we were talking about are not trying to bring out the literature in urban lit, they are simply glorifying the stereotypes of the urban setting in hopes of making book sales. That's not art, that's trash.